Bobr

Well, it’s definitely the case for me and for some of my friends/family.
I left Ukraine “legally” (it was before the war, when it was still possible to leave “legally” without paying huge bribes), but some of people I know had to escape “illegally” (some went to the Russia-controlled territories, some escaped through mountains/rivers to Moldova, some were caught…).
Zelensky has already tried to persuade European leaders to deport us, but so far he failed. Still, every once in a while news appear (usually from Baltics/Poland, but sometimes from other countries aa well) about some politician wanting to deport us, so this is quite scary shit.

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Just choose a different instance :)

Well, you raise a valid point, it’s also bad of course.
It’s just that “forcing you to do a thing (a physical labor) you do not want to do” and “forcing you to give up a part of your salary” are different things.

Or is it just being forced to directly do morally abhorrent things?

Not just “morally abhorrent things”, any forced labor is wrong.

I don’t think I am “arguing semantics” (whatever that means), and you evaded the question :(

In the event of a real defensive war, where your nation is invaded with the intent of conquest or subjugation, you will not have a lack of volunteers. You will have a lack of trained people.

Hey, I have a (purely theoretical!) question if you don’t mind.

So, if there was (theoretically of course) a war out there, where the government openly admits that they lack volunteers, people are trying to escape the country en masse by illegally crossing the border, and also there were thousands of videos online about that government kidnapping people off the streets (so that they have at least someone to send into the war), would it mean by your definition that such a war is not “with the intent of conquest or subjugation”?

It is abuse and violation of person’s freedom and dignity. It (and people supporting it) should be fought by any means necessary.

I’m way too familiar with liberals labeling everything they don’t like as “fascist propaganda” :)

So, still no.

No. And I would continue helping people evade whatever censorship a government tries to impose on them.

Just checked my battery usage by app.

SimpleX has the first place with 35%, with the next app being the browser with mere 12% :/

The punch line? I’m not even using SimpleX, it’s just installed on my phone because there were a few chats I wanted to join.

Unless it’s auditted and open source then you should assume its spyware.

I do. I use Matrix and recommend it to all my friends.

“Telegram is spyware” was not the original thesis I replied to, it was about “operated by the enemy”.

Sure, what exactly would you like to have a proof for?

I know, right? I was also shocked when I discovered that it’s not just the evil-evil Russia who does the propaganda thing! :)

Is anything I’ve said a lie though? Or maybe misinformation? Or maybe I’m manipulating facts? Or maybe “Russian talking-points” is how you label inconvenient truth that you are not willing to accept? :)

Debunk what I’ve said, show everyone that I’m just a Russian propagandist (or even better - a bot) spreading lies and deceptions!
Ah yeah right, why do that if calling someone a “Russian larper” is a good enough argument for some folks… :)

Thanks, that was an interesting read :)

Of course it doesn’t prove anything (especially that Telegram sends any information about Ukrainians to Russian government!), but at least those allegations indeed have more credibility than the usual “Russia bad”. It also doesn’t say anything about Durov doing something because he had financial problems. And what it definitely doesn’t say is that “Telegram is operated by Russia”.

Yeah, I hear this quite often :)

Every Ukrainian who doesnt want to die for Zelensky is a Russian, yeah yeah yeah heard that one more times than I can count.

Cheers :)

What gives those rumors credibility other than “Russia bad”?

If you have links to some sources with some facts - I’d very much like to read them

Russia literally wants Ukraine wiped out and yet the idiots unable to change an app on their phone because “network effects and habit”

The thing with Zelensky’s propaganda is that externally (with people familiar with the situation only from CNN (or whever you get your information from…)) it works an order of magnitude better than internally… :)

So “idiots” use Telegram because not only they see no threat in it (why would they?), but also because it helps to avoid the very real threat of “lawful mobilization actions” by the government.

Imagine entire country using coms software operated by the enemy.

Do I get it right that you know that

• Pavel Durov (the creator of Telegram) has left Russia after refusing to give government information on Ukrainians during 2014 protests (from his previous project - VK, also used by both people in Russia and Ukraine)
• Russian government’s most extensive blocking campaign/attempt was targeted at Telegram
• Telegram’s headquarters are in UAE

and still somehow make a conclusion that “it is operated by the enemy” (assuming that by enemy you mean Russian government)? I’d like to learn more about this logic :)