I mean, I as an average person thought about this tactic, I’m sure some project 2025 people also though about it. I mean, denaturalization have to go through courts, destroying naturalization records could just be an executive order. I mean, they don’t even need to destroy it, just order the records to be “relocated for security purposes” then “oopsie, they got caught on fire during transport”. Once thats done, any of the citizens copies would get dismissed as fake and mass deportations could proceed…

I hope I’m just being a “doomer”, and pray it doesn’t happen.

Edit: I already have photos of my certificate of citizenship, but still… if they just start burning records, they can just dismiss my copy as fake. 😖

  • Apepollo11@lemmy.world
    57·
    6 days ago

    Theresa May essentially did this while she was Home Secretary in the UK. It was the trigger of the whole “Windrush Scandal”, after it was revealed that the official paperwork of dozens hundreds of naturalised citizens was shredded without any record being made.

    It caused people, most of whom were well into old-age to be deported, have their passports confiscated, and be denied access to healthcare services.

  • osaerisxero@kbin.melroy.org
    45·
    6 days ago

    Real talk: if they’re at the point of destroying records to justify it, it will not matter if they actually did succeed in destroying them or not, your best case scenario becomes a quick deportation and worst a concentration camp. Legal justification will not be a blocker.

  • That_Devil_Girl@lemmy.ml
    15·
    5 days ago

    When it comes to fascism, the rule of law only matters to them when it works in their favor. The rest of the time it’s simply ignored.

  • Maggoty@lemmy.world
    151·
    5 days ago

    I’m not sure at that point that they would care. Why do all that when they can just deport people and block them at the points of entry. They could deport a citizen, turn off their passport, and if they show back up detain them for fraudulent ID documents and then either deport them again or send them to the concentration camp for “hard cases”.

    Burning the naturalization documents assumes they even care about courts and bring people in front of them.

    That said it would be a massive risk. If they didn’t do about a hundred things right the first time they’d end up quickly removed from office by a mob, escorted by the very NG troops sent to stop them. Americans care about citizenship, but that goes both ways. Removing that without due process would lead to activism and if that’s not disrupted properly they get the bad ending. If they fail to secure the capital, it ends badly. If they fail to secure congress, it ends badly. If they fail to ensure wins in the 2026 and 2028 elections, it ends badly. (and not holding those elections also ends badly, like a civil war at best)

    So they’ll most likely continue to use the path they used in Trump’s first term. They’ll challenge naturalization documents in court. The good news is courts are slow and dockets fill up fast. There’s only so much they can do with that.

    • ERROR: Earth.exe has crashed@lemmy.dbzer0.comOPEnglish
      9·
      5 days ago

      The good news is courts are slow and dockets fill up fast. There’s only so much they can do with that.

      But executive orders are legal until a judge strikes it down… so… 👀

      that doesn’t sound good… 😖

      • Maggoty@lemmy.world
        4·
        5 days ago

        I know, that’s why I was talking about the political consequences of doing stuff. I fully expect there will be illegally fast deportations for anyone they believe is undocumented. Citizens and green card holders need to keep their documents and copies of their documents accessible in case they get swept up in that, (It’s happened before). But actually going after citizens and green card holders as the objective, without due process, creates a lot of problems for them. And they have 13 million undocumented people to work through with a system capable of doing 2 million in a 4 year period right now. It’s entirely possible they just never get to the next part of their list.

  • Nyxicas@kbin.melroy.org
    6·
    5 days ago

    They could just rack up any reason they can think of to deport people.

    “You’re a terrorist, get out” which was actually a thing in the 2000s in America.

    “We think you’re not paying anything, get out”

    I mean they must have a roulette wheel somewhere to spin and whatever it lands on, is their reason to deport you.

  • db2@lemmy.world
    14·
    6 days ago

    They can order anything they feel like ordering. Whether it’s legal or whether anyone capitulates to it are entirely different questions.

  • MisterD@lemmy.ca
    131·
    6 days ago

    Well the president is immune from prosecution thanks to the corrupt SCOTUS. He could destroy them but he’d have to do it himself

    • JonsJava@lemmy.world
      32·
      5 days ago

      Yeah… Not really.

      Let’s think this through. If the president has immunity, then any order he gives falls under the same immunity.

      If I tell you to steal, and anything I say is legal, you stealing would fall under that umbrella. What I tell you to do can’t be legal if you doing it is illegal.

      • MyTurtleSwimsUpsideDown@fedia.io
        5·
        5 days ago

        I’m pretty sure “acting lawfully” and “having immunity from prosecution for illegal actions” are two different things. Just because the president cannot be prosecuted does not change the fundamental nature of the deed, only the consequences thereof.

      • lordnikon@lemmy.worldEnglish
        4·
        5 days ago

        Yeah this is wrong at least when it comes to the military UCMJ allows you to disregard an unlawful order. Nuremberg confirmed that i was just following orders doesn’t fly at least in the military. Immunity doesn’t make it legal it just makes the person uncountable and shows how broken the system is.