- cross-posted to:
- android@lemdro.id
- cross-posted to:
- android@lemdro.id
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Honestly, Custom ROMs have been in decline of usage since few years. There are also Other ROMS like Pixel Experience, PixyOS, Havoc, evolutionX, PixelOS, Paranoid, Derpfest, CrDroid and lot more.
The reason for the drop is due to a combination of reasons like better OEM UI, unpublished Kernel code (Chinese OEMs, Mediatek), locked bootloaders and Safetynet issues.
I’m currently rocking CrDroid it has currently ~85K active devices (https://stats.crdroid.net/).
Before i got my Pixel 6 Pro, i’ve been running Custom Roms on everything. The Pixel 6 Pro is probably the first device, i’m actually okay running Stock. It just does what it should. And i’ll be honest, the hassle of getting it to work properly (Banking, Netflix, etc) is just too much for my everyday phone…Google really did a number on that one, both positive and negative. I kind of hate it…
Ironically that’s one of the only phones that you have the choice of not running stock
I know - which was the reason i got it in the first place.
Not it isn’t. Plenty of OEMs let you unlock the bootloader.
That isn’t the only factor though. Take OnePlus, for example. You can still unlock their bootloaders, but if you check out XDA you’ll see that their hasn’t been any custom roms for a OnePlus flagship since the 9 pro because they stopped publishing the MSM tool, so the risk of bricking the phone is too great.
I guess the same thing is happened with samsung after the s10 series. No new roms for the newer ones apart from 1 or 2 oneui based roms.
But in most of OEMs you cannot relock the bootloader with your own key…
I used to turn to custom roms to extend the life of my phone. My first smartphone didn’t get an official update after I purchased it for example. The custom roms often made the phone snappier too.
These days I’m on a mid range Samsung phone released almost 4 years ago and it’s still getting updates.
Ditto on a Pixel 6 Pro. There were a ton of people with issues when this thing came out, but I was lucky enough to dodge all the issues.
I had none over the last 2 years…which is funny, because i fully expected to have them - and put a custom rom on it. There are just two things that irk me…you can’t disable IPv6 and the adaptive charging is still not enough for me personally, i would have liked to have a hard limit…
Google really did a number on that one, both positive and negative. I kind of hate it…
And yet you bought a Pixel and supported them in this.
Safetynet issues
Fun part of this is that it relies entirelly on Googles tracking framework.
Do custom ROMs still have issues with some apps not allowing them? It’s been an eternity since I tried one and I don’t know if it’s a hard requirement, but at least when I did try it, I had (?) to root my device and my bank apps refused to work after that.
Many applications especially banks require Google Safetynet to be functional, even without root. I am running DivestOS, a hardened version of LineageOS without gapps, and I can’t have access on my bank because I chose freedom. Democracy at its finest…
Some banking or payment apps can detect root and won’t let you use them.
When I used to run Custom ROMs I just used magisk to hide the root and these apps would work fine afterwards.
I haven’t encountered such a thing yet (been using for 5 months).
There are lot of methods to bypass those checks even now, and often many ROMs do this by default. (LineageOS doesn’t do that afaik)
better OEM UI
Very subjective.
Unpublished kernel code
Don’t use those phones.
Locked bootloaders
Plenty of OEMs allow bootloader unlocking, stop buying Samsung.
Safetynet issues
It’s Google Play Integrity checking now, and as someone who has been using LinageOS on unrooted phones for a while, I’ve never had these issues. Not to say people out there aren’t having them, but it’s not as bleak as people seem to believe it is.
I have one phone that’s rooted, and I have to use magisk to hide it, and that occasionally has issues, but not the non-rooted ones running custom roms.
Where are these OEMs that allow proper bootloader unlocking on most of their range?
Google, Sony …? Huawei stopped doing it, Oppo & Samsung doesn’t last I checked.
OnePlus has a pretty good track record for this
Fairphone
Xiaomi Does albeit with some wait time.
I still remember the good old days when there was no waiting time.
It’s Google Play Integrity checking now, and as someone who has been using LinageOS on unrooted phones for a while, I’ve never had these issues. Not to say people out there aren’t having them, but it’s not as bleak as people seem to believe it is
Maybe a week ago they borked the integrity of custom ROMs. GPay/Wallet doesn’t work anymore with Magisk shenanigans. Happened to every ROM I checked.
I’m talking from a general user perspective who often can’t even differentiate between chipsets let alone look for such details.
People used to got to Custom ROMs because OEMs were really doing shit job, that’s not the case now given now.
People used to got to Custom ROMs because OEMs were really doing shit job, that’s not the case now given now.
Yep. I used to use custom (ROMs, kernels, etc) for the extra features and playing with my phone like a shiny new toy. Now I use GrapheneOS because OEMs and Google don’t do security and privacy anywhere near as good as GOS. And I can live with the minor inconvenience of apps that use Play Integrity API, though I do encourage the app devs to switch to hardware backed attestation because: “Android’s hardware attestation API provides a much stronger form of attestation than the Play Integrity API with the ability to whitelist the keys of alternate operating systems. It also avoids an unnecessary dependency on Google Play services and Google’s Play Integrity servers.” https://grapheneos.org/articles/attestation-compatibility-guide
Now try to use most of Banking applications (even McDonalds app lol) Most of these application require Google Play Integrity. So practically, you are enforced to use Google Play Services or buy a second device to run android with gapps and then power it off (that’s what I did)
Lineage OS is really great, I recommend the forked version with MicroG bundled to use google apps.
Depends on how pure you want to be. If you are a purest, that is a bad thing to do.
Well yes you are right, but being completely pure is borderline impossible IMO, and most people transition slowly.
True. I have been using Lineage with no gapps package for a bit over 4 years now. I no longer even have a google account as of almost 2 years ago.
I want to move away from GSF, how is MicroG working nowadays? I used it some years ago but it was buggy with any app related to mapping, and some other quirks.
It works perfectly in my case can’t say for others. You should check their issues page in github about your device.
Works perfectly fine for me. I’ve also used an app that used Google Maps in it and it worked perfectly fine. Instead of Google Maps it displayed the map on OpenStreetMap.
Or, just skip that step altogether
If you aren’t sure if you can fully degoogle then it a great offer. Unfortunately many apps depend on GSF so its understandable.
Is it equal to a regular android? Will the usual banking apps work on it, for example?
They work in the browser;)
For now
With the right Magisk modules I got my banking apps working
The Sparkasse (german bank) app works perfectly fine. I use LineageOS with microG and I’m not logged in with a Google account or anything.
Nowadays with SafetyNet hardware checks it’s a dangerous game to rely on that.
No. Banking won’t work and you can’t lock bootloader. As far as I know there’s no Recovery password so someone could just adb and pull data. If you want to use banking apps you could use magisk to pass safety net but that will make your phone less secure. Personally I have no banking app so I don’t give a shit
Banking apps work for me. And you cant pull data over adb without the password. The data is encrypted by default since a few Android versions
It really depends on the banking app.
And you can always use a browser - Hermit enables you to use a web page that looks much like an app.
I think you can configure that some apps can be only accessed by root user while not giving root permissions to a pc usb debugging
1hr 45mins?!
It’s a podcast. Most people listen to it while doing other things and don’t watch it in a single sitting.
If you don’t want to watch it, then don’t, but it really is a great podcast.
Damn, Sweet Brown. Ain’t seen her in forever!
I used LineageOS before switching to GrapheneOS
Why did you switch?
- Quarantined google play services on an alternate profile was a big sell for me. I don’t use anything google related in my day to day but occasionally I need traffic updates or alternative routes and I’m forced to use google maps. There’s a few other exceptions where I very rarely will need to use google play services.
In those situations, I can boot to an alternate profile for each app I need to use, and I know google is unable to harvest the majority of my data.
-
GrapheneOS has hardened security compared to lineageOS.
-
LineageOS did some type of takeover on cyanogenmod and I forget the details but I remember the whole situation left a sour taste in my mouth.
Considering the lead developer of GrapheneOS bans anyone from their chat for asking how an Android phone with GrapheneOS compares to a non-android phone, such as a PinePhone or Librem 5, in terms of security, because, according to said developer, PhonePhone and Librem5 are “scam products” and even asking questions about them is “spreading misinformation” and “promotion of fraud”, I’d be quite, quite vary of the claims GrapheneOS developers make about its security.
The lead dev stepped down months ago, and the main thing with non-Pixel phones are the lack of security which is why only Pixels are currently supported.
Which chat, the matrix channel?
That is pretty infuriating honestly.
Isn’t Librem the one so slow to ship products and do refunds thereafter, it’s basically a scam? Yes, it is. It’s the Purism scam company. I watched a video on it. It was informative and unfortunate.
GrapheneOS is good apparently, even though I’m wary of the idea that a phone that Google sells could ever be secure…
The only parts of this phone not open source are google proprietary drivers for the hardware. I highly doubt those are compromised.
I’m pretty confident my Pixel 6 is not phoning home to the mother ship.
Edit: and I guess whatever grub/bootloader is on here might also be closed source, not sure.
You can check source code
Reviewing the source code of an entire operating system is not a task doable by a single person, particularly when that person is not an expert in the field.
A proper code audit needs to be done by a team of professionals capable of spotting things like actual security vulnerabilities and logic errors that might result in more data being exposed, than advertised.
Meh. If someones willing to pay to do that it’ll be interesting. Skepticism is good but accusing with no concrete proof is not nice
“Accusing with no concrete proof” is exactly what GrapheneOS developers are doing in regards to other projects. Claiming other products are a scam, particularly when those products somewhat compete with yours, is a pretty big red flag.
They forked it when it was announced they were going to shut it down. Not sure what the issue with that is.
LineageOS did some type of takeover on cyanogenmod and I forget the details but I remember the whole situation left a sour taste in my mouth.
CyanogenMod was the one that went commercial and was shut down. LineageOS is the continuation of the original vision. Kinda like OpenOffice vs LibreOffice.
In 2013, the founder, Stefanie Jane,[11][12] obtained venture funding under the name Cyanogen Inc. to allow commercialization of the project.[1][13] However, the company did not, in her view, capitalize on the project’s success, and in 2016 she left or was forced out[14] as part of a corporate restructure, which involved a change of CEO, closure of offices and projects, and cessation of services,[15][16] and therefore left uncertainty over the future of the company. The code itself, being open source, was later forked, and its development continues as a community project under the LineageOS name.
I’m the opposite. I was running graphineos until the device ran out of the support window, and then it became lineage os.
Here you can take a look at popularity by device
And it could’ve even been useful, had they not chosen to show the code names instead of the make and model…
I second this. Definitely not gonna be looking up for each entry.
Daaamn sagit (xiaomi mi 6) number 3. Writing this from a sagit with LOS, such a great phone. This is why it’s great to have community supported roms, this phone hasn’t been updated for many many years and would be close to being unusable if it wasn’t for them.
I have this phone since December 2017 and I’ve had no issue so far to make me change. I’ve thought many times about upgrading, but it’s so smooth, camera with gcam is great and new things like quick charging and 5g are things that I don’t really need, so I haven’t changed yet. I’m afraid of choosing a device that won’t be as good as this one and that it won’t last as long.
It’s sad that community made Roms are less and less popular, I feel like phones are evolving less each year and Roms are a great way to have more control and extend the lives of your phone.
I had a similar experience with the Asus Zenfone Max Pro M1. It was a budget phone but it had tons of custom roms and it lasted a good 4 years for me. I had to change phones because it broke during a motorcycle accident.
I’m obstinate as fuck, and I have a downright unhealthy resentment of having software capabilities taken away. As long as there’s a single setting or feature that I can get from a custom ROM that I can’t get on stock, I will use them.
Many versions ago, Google removed the “hold back button to kill foreground app” functionality, and I’ll use LineageOS soley to keep that (but there’s plenty of other reasons). The ability to restore useful features that Google and OEMs take away is an absolute necessity for me.
It’s almost enjoyable; I get a kick out of telling Google to fuck itself and restoring my device’s capabilities.
I feel the same way, though on LineageOS, I wasn’t able to get the double-click-power-for-camera to ever work properly. Do you happen to have/use that feature?
There are DOZENS OF US! DOZENS!!
Lineage os is great
It’s hard to find estimates of android devices, but most reports I found indicate around 3 billion, and this makes us around 0,05%. I expected it to be low, but not like that…
But how much of that is phones? There’s a lot of other devices running Android.
Good point. I found no data making that distinction, so we can’t really know.
See the calculator some guy made run doom or a barcode scanner at my job.
Android is a fairly good target development platform, it’s still getting updates, apps built for older versions of android still work on newer versions, large active tallent pool both perfessionally and hobbyist, absolute metric fuck ton of tutorials. Yeah, if you’re making a new product it isn’t hard to just make it an android computer and throw am app on there that you make that does the thing.
I recently used a Holter monitor that was an Android phone.
I’ve seen many, many handheld devices in retail environments that are clearly Android based.
Billion or million? :P
I’ve been using LineageOS on my OnePlus 8, after a couple buggy updates from the manufacturer. I haven’t looked back once.
I use my phone pretty averagely and never run into bugs or problems, and the added features make it a no brainer.
I’ve rarely run into app compatibility issues, but there’s usually a simple solution available. Or a different app!
do banking apps work on it again?
It’s a constant cat and mouse game with Google. You can use Magisk with Zygisk enabled, Shamiko, and Play Integrity Fix (there’s also a few other combos that work) to get baking apps to work. I have no issues on my rooted Pixel 8 Pro, but it’s always a gamble if Google updates their end and then you get locked out of Google Wallet for a day once you update your fixes (not banking apps).
Depends on your bank. My bank’s app (Sparkasse) has always worked, even when I had Magisk installed.
Unfortunately GPay / Google Wallet has been borked on most ROMs since the recent Google shenanigans about a week ago. Even those not rooted. I got hit by that, running ArrowOS and not being rooted.
My bank’s app works though so eh, lost some convenience but can get things done.
You talking to me?
Will be +1 when have official support for the poco X5 pro. (If I can pay with mobile)
🤓
(If I can pay with mobile)
Correct me if I’m wrong, but so long as you root with Magisk and configure the denylist, installing the SafetyNet Fix and changing the Props if you need to spoof a device ID, then you’ll always be able to use Google Pay/contactless, regardless of whether on Lineage or another custom ROM.
How did they measure this?
I don’t know the exact modus operandi, but usually this is achieved by using some “phone home” mechanism which sends a device identifier (to ensure uniqueness) along with an OS version (and maybe some other fingerprints to ensure integrity of the data - like a hash of CPU hardware, etc).
I had LineageOS on my Nexus 4. Every damn phone I’ve had since hasn’t had any custom ROM available (and one couldn’t even be rooted; fuck Samsung). I want it back.
Here bro, once you get to choose a new device, you know where to look for
All these are excellent rootable devices
I like the filtering this site has got but it’s missing an option for the one thing I want most that is becoming increasingly more difficult to find: a 3.5mm audio jack. Other than that, though, this is pretty slick even for just finding a new phone in general.
I wish I could install lineage on my s10+ snapdragon. I just got this phone and now I just ordered a pixel to get grapheneos. I was willing to pay this guy on telegram to unlock my phone so I could try to get lineage to work or at least a custom rom, but my bootloader is one update off, I have v6 but he only supports up to v5. I hate ordering new devices when my current ones are still functional. I also am getting rid of my fitbit I also just got and replacing it with the amazon band 5 since it can connect to gadgetbridge. Degoogling is expensive, it shouldn’t be this bad just to get privacy. I’m not sure what to do with my devices I am replacing, but I hate that they had to be replaced in the first place. I also switched from google services to proton mail/drive/vpn.
Keep them forever like I do! Just start collecting smartphones because it’s better for the environment. I have like 10 of them never going into a landfill. Maybe find people who actually need phones idk.
I’m thinking about selling my old phones on eBay. It’s better if someone can get any use out of them instead of them just laying around in my room.
Yeah you should probably do that instead. Or be like me and switch phones everyday for some reason. Go insane use an iPhone and then an android phone than a phone from 2016 you have to custom rom to get working again because it’s last update was from 2018 and you have to replace the battery.
