A lot of people really don’t understand federation…
And I think it’s because instances federate by default no matter what.
Like, there’s one instance that is a single person who believes they have multiple personalities. They have open signups but then ban anyone that signs up as “impersonating admins”.
.world federated with them, and even let them in the “admin only” matrix chat and let that person pretend to be a real admin who has real problems with actual users.
I legitimately don’t know if they’re aware, it’s just they federate with literally anyone by default, and that’s why they keep running into issues later.
But they exist still. My assumption here is it wasn’t always a shit hole. That the shit hole occurs when a few poor features of digital spaces are exploited. Vote manipulations. Moderation capture. Linking posts and communities by accounts like Libs of TT who brigade. And once you de-federate, what stops them from jumping to any other instances you enjoy?
Keep mind that Trump’s truth social is a Mastodon instance. But no one federates with it (by design; they never turned federation on on purpose). That doesn’t mean that other mastodon instances are made worse because it’s there.
You’re saying that because assholes have their own space, that we can’t?
Your point makes no sense. Do you understand federation and defederation? It’s not a tool of censorship. It’s literally the solution to the problem you’re complaining about.
I really don’t think you understand how this works.
If I start an instance, it is impossible for you to censor me, on my instance. Even if you were a billionaire. I cannot censor you on other federated sites, but I can defederate from a site which is run by billionaire assholes. They can have their space, and I can have mine and there doesn’t need to be any cross pollution.
It is impossible to censor anyone within their own instance. But you can block instances.
This is not a single site. It is dozens, or hundreds, or thousands, or millions, and so on. In theory, every person on the planet could have their own instance and no one could censor them.
You’re missing what I’m saying. What gives you’re instance of anything any importance. Why are you not creating instances every day for yourself?
You’re going to want to gravitate to instances that produce content. You can say you’ll just defederate but what stops the highly motivated PR team whose job is to capture these instances from also targeting other instances you enjoy.
I don’t know about your experience, but I’ve had this happen outside the fediverse. Many sites I enjoyed were slowly turned. There was ways to stop it. But people didn’t take it seriously. I see the exact same attitudes here.
They are going to come to the fediverse and they’re going to make it theirs if we don’t figure out ways to prevent it. Spinning up new instances and defederation will not be enough. There needs to be systematic changes to how these sites work. They have to be anti capitalist and community first rather than moderation first.
What gives you’re instance of anything any importance.
As in, why would anyone sign up on my instance? Why would anyone come see my content?
Answer me this: Why would they have to sign up, or come to my instance, to see my content? If I’m not broadcasting objectionable shit, my instance will remain federated, so everyone will see posts from me and my instance on their preferred instance. And I’ll see all their content, on my own instance.
The problem you’re imagining is already solved. Even if a big popular instance gets bought, or taken over by fiat, defederation works as a solution; the content is posted by users, so there’ll just be an explosion of content from a different instance as everyone moves.
I can defederate from those instances. Problem solved. So can you.
A lot of people really don’t understand federation…
And I think it’s because instances federate by default no matter what.
Like, there’s one instance that is a single person who believes they have multiple personalities. They have open signups but then ban anyone that signs up as “impersonating admins”.
.world federated with them, and even let them in the “admin only” matrix chat and let that person pretend to be a real admin who has real problems with actual users.
I legitimately don’t know if they’re aware, it’s just they federate with literally anyone by default, and that’s why they keep running into issues later.
But they exist still. My assumption here is it wasn’t always a shit hole. That the shit hole occurs when a few poor features of digital spaces are exploited. Vote manipulations. Moderation capture. Linking posts and communities by accounts like Libs of TT who brigade. And once you de-federate, what stops them from jumping to any other instances you enjoy?
Keep mind that Trump’s truth social is a Mastodon instance. But no one federates with it (by design; they never turned federation on on purpose). That doesn’t mean that other mastodon instances are made worse because it’s there.
So safe spaces for me, but not for thee?
You’re saying that because assholes have their own space, that we can’t?
Your point makes no sense. Do you understand federation and defederation? It’s not a tool of censorship. It’s literally the solution to the problem you’re complaining about.
Not sure what you mean here. I’m saying it is potentially not censorship proof and that we should be aware of that.
I really don’t think you understand how this works.
If I start an instance, it is impossible for you to censor me, on my instance. Even if you were a billionaire. I cannot censor you on other federated sites, but I can defederate from a site which is run by billionaire assholes. They can have their space, and I can have mine and there doesn’t need to be any cross pollution.
It is impossible to censor anyone within their own instance. But you can block instances.
This is not a single site. It is dozens, or hundreds, or thousands, or millions, and so on. In theory, every person on the planet could have their own instance and no one could censor them.
You’re missing what I’m saying. What gives you’re instance of anything any importance. Why are you not creating instances every day for yourself?
You’re going to want to gravitate to instances that produce content. You can say you’ll just defederate but what stops the highly motivated PR team whose job is to capture these instances from also targeting other instances you enjoy.
I don’t know about your experience, but I’ve had this happen outside the fediverse. Many sites I enjoyed were slowly turned. There was ways to stop it. But people didn’t take it seriously. I see the exact same attitudes here.
They are going to come to the fediverse and they’re going to make it theirs if we don’t figure out ways to prevent it. Spinning up new instances and defederation will not be enough. There needs to be systematic changes to how these sites work. They have to be anti capitalist and community first rather than moderation first.
You have such a serious lack of understanding as to how the fediverse works that it’s not even possible to have a conversation with you about it.
I would be more than willing to pick this up again when you do understand.
As in, why would anyone sign up on my instance? Why would anyone come see my content?
Answer me this: Why would they have to sign up, or come to my instance, to see my content? If I’m not broadcasting objectionable shit, my instance will remain federated, so everyone will see posts from me and my instance on their preferred instance. And I’ll see all their content, on my own instance.
The problem you’re imagining is already solved. Even if a big popular instance gets bought, or taken over by fiat, defederation works as a solution; the content is posted by users, so there’ll just be an explosion of content from a different instance as everyone moves.