How would one actually calculate the full “fruit of labor” in work that includes several people doing different tasks?
How to calculate between people doing the same task producing physical items seems easy. Add in customer service, sales, and development, and it seems easier to focus on what other groups pay for those skills, which is not what I want.
It also seems looking at the difference between having the role, and not. However some skills are mandatory, just less involved.
Feel free to simplify, but different tasks is a must.
TL;DR Impossible, you can’t just split all the money among the employees.
If you want to be fair in this you need to include all the expenses any business has and also reduce that by some multiple, no business can spend all it makes and survive for long.
Businesses have the same risks and problems as people do, with ironically, additional problems and risks brought on by the people themselves, such as embezzlement and theft.
You have to include or calculate for holding back profits to stay in the bank to get the company through a recession, natural disasters, or unforeseen circumstances on the downside, or to buy new production facilities and equipment on the upside.
There is almost always debt service on real estate or existing equipment.
There are lots of costs any business has and must provide for such as defending against frivolous lawsuits, patent trolls, and grifters, as well as the usual ones such as advertising, complying with government regulations, taxes.
For retail and manufacturing, supplies and enough inventory takes up a lot of capital and also financing to make it work.
Several people doing different tasks
Are you able to expand on the scale and nuance here?
- Is it in a chain where one persons tasks gives the input to the next persons task? factory line style?
- How large are the tasks and then roles to fulfill them? IE at a subway (bake bread initially, prepare sandwich on demand) vs a software project (months long work, tasks could potentially months long and need many subtasks)
Some example questions for what I mean
what other groups pay for those skills, which is not what I want.
Why not, and what would be your ‘just’ criteria instead?
A totally different kind of ‘just’ approach would be to find out what your workers need for living, and pay them that.
A totally different kind of ‘just’ approach would be to find out what your workers need for living, and pay them that.
Thank you for offering this one. It falls into the “things I don’t and shouldn’t control.”
If workers learn they can be paid more by having higher expenses, they will have higher expenses. I also should not be combing through their expenses and judging them to avoid manipulation.
I didn’t mean money that they spend for fun. Not at all.
I meant real needs. This means a different (very unusual) point of view regarding salary.
For example, businesses are already required to spend extra money if there is a worker with special needs = disabilities. The company must provide a special chair in the office, extra tools, whatever. Such a person might also have more extra needs with his normal expenses for living.
I think market based mechanisms for calculating pay would be very hard to get away from.
That said, Mondragon (worker cooperative) has a base pay rate and then all positions are assigned a multiplier to determine an individual’s compensation.
Just?
Like divide profit by a weighted hours worked average for all employees?
Weighted by hours worked is okay, but seems unfair if all hours are not generally interchangeable. In a restaurant think rush hour versus a lull.
I also don’t like weighed by salary, as the highest paid already get more.
Weighting the different kinds of hours could work, but I have no idea how to weight them.
You used the word “just”.
I guess my angle is if we agree the market isn’t just, then maybe you just pay everyone equally? Don’t all people need to eat and have a place to sleep?
