In the end, the KIA car company made its cars into subscription models, I really hate this because in the end the car we buy with our own money doesn’t feel like it belongs to us. Should we finally buy an old school car ? so as not to be affected by this subscription models or is there a way to crack the software installed in it ?

  • Transporter Room 3@startrek.websiteEnglish
    23514·
    11 months ago

    I love all the comments saying “yeah well that stuff isn’t free someone has to maintain it”

    YOU’RE PAYING 100K FOR A FUCKING CAR

    That’s the payment. That’s what they get their money from.

    Wanting more in perpetuity is fucking stupid no matter what the excuse is.

    • june@lemmy.worldEnglish
      581·
      11 months ago

      There’s also the fact that remote start, while shorter range, has existed on key fobs for like 20 years. My ex wife’s 2022 Hyundai has remote start, but only through the app, while my 2013 Focus has it on the key fob.

      That’s honestly the only feature that’s bundled in those subscriptions that I really want, though the alarm notification is a nice to have.

      • bill_buttlicker@lemmy.worldEnglish
        27·
        11 months ago

        I have a 22 kia with remote start. I also have the app (that costs the same as this post so I don’t pay either). The remote start sets the car to 72 with nothing else on. No way to change it via settings. Paying for the app remote start is the only way to do the defroster, heated seats, steering wheel, etc. It’s so fucking lame.

    • IronicDeadPan@lemmy.worldEnglish
      252·
      11 months ago

      A 2024 Kia Telluride is right around $50,000 USD (fully loaded specs), but I get what you’re saying with regards to vehicles in general.

      Like BMW and Tesla having “creature comforts” behind subscriptions.

      • helenslunch@feddit.nlEnglish
        33·
        11 months ago

        Tesla doesn’t have “creature comforts” behind subscriptions. They’re 1-time payments.

    • vamputer@infosec.pubEnglish
      20·
      11 months ago

      Not only that, but if you have no choice but to buy a car with internet connectivity, these are supposed to be the kind of bells and whistles they give to at least make it SEEM like you’re not being completely taken advantage of. It’s like a double-dip. “We’re giving your car connectivity so we can sell your telemetry, AND we get to charge you for all the useful features, too!”

      If it costs SO much to maintain these services, cool. I’d be happy to save the poor little car manufacturers money by buying a model that uses no connectivity whatsoever. But, for some reason, they don’t seem to want to offer that. Gee, I wonder why.

      Demand more out of them, because they’ll always be looking to get more out of you.

    • yeehaw@lemmy.caEnglish
      131·
      11 months ago

      This reminds me of the video game industry. Make a complete game, then choose to remove pieces to sell later as add-on content. Lol. The only thing I see costing them money is if they have to pay for an LTE subscription to maintain that internet connectivity so you can start your car from an app.

    • farquadsquads@ani.socialEnglish
      132·
      11 months ago

      They have considered how much the gains from being evil assholes offset the cost of alienating some people, and found that they make more by being evil, it’s not stupid.

      • youmaynotknow@lemmy.mlEnglish
        74·
        11 months ago

        You keep mentioning “official video by (insert manufacturer name here)”. Are you even thinking when you say that? It’s the manufacturer, what the hell were you expecting them to promote? “were fucking you over, so here’s why you have to give us more money for a car that you think is yours but actually will never be”?

        • locuester@lemmy.zipEnglish
          3·
          11 months ago

          The video shows the fob starting the car. It also states that you can pay for the app to be able to do it anywhere.

          It’s not a promo video, it’s a “how to” for car owners.

          Are we not to believe that it really does that?

          What is this internet thing for if I can’t find information? Do I have to drive to a car dealership and ask to find out if this is true? Do I need to see it in action? When I do, can you even trust my answer?

          • youmaynotknow@lemmy.mlEnglish
            1·
            11 months ago

            Not 1 person here has mentioned that it doesn’t work. Not 1 person here has said that the “feature” is useless or anything remotely similar.

            What is in question here is the fucking pushing of companies to tie as many idiots as humanly possible to their subscriptions to keep on draining funds from them.

            Give me the car for free, and maybe I’ll subscribe. Otherwise, I buy stuff with ALL it’s capabilities enabled or not at all.

            My car is worth US$85,000 in my country. Everything works, app and all, and I don’t have to pay anything other than my loan, insurance, maintenance and charge (yes, it’s an electric vehicle).

            I own a 2023 BYD Han, I have an account for the app, and I can do whatever it’s able to do from it without ever having to open my wallet again.

            If and when they decide to make this a paid subscription, then I’ll sell that one, and move on.

            So, yeah, follow a bullshit advertisement that you call a “tutorial” and believe what you want. They are just like drug pushers, only for tech.

            Now who is the one making fucking noise without looking a things from a common sense perspective?

            • locuester@lemmy.zipEnglish
              1·
              11 months ago

              Now who is the one making fucking noise without looking a things from a common sense perspective?

              IMO, you. Again, the video isn’t marketing. The car auto-starts just fine without paying anyone a penny extra.

              The manufacturer offers overpriced warranties and app features. Totally optional. You don’t have to buy it.

              The dealership offers overpriced vehicle service also. It’s optional. You don’t have to buy it.

              Some people want that stuff. I don’t. You don’t. 🤝

    • Goku@lemmy.worldEnglish
      7·
      11 months ago

      Not to mention the data they mine from you with their “app” that they can sell to advertisers.

    • MajorasMaskForever@lemmy.worldEnglish
      114·
      11 months ago

      The issue is that with ongoing service across time, the longer the service is being used the more it costs Kia. The larger the time boxes Kia uses the bigger the number is and the more you’re going to scare off customers.

      Using Kias online build and price, looks like the most expensive Telluride you can get right now is $60k MSRP, cheapest at 30k

      Let’s assume Kia estimates average lifetime of a Telluride to be 20 years so they create an option to purchase this service one time for the “lifetime” of the vehicle. Taking in good faith the pricing Kia has listed, using that $150 annual package, and assuming that price goes up every year at a rate of 10% (what Netflix, YouTube, etc have been doing) across those twenty years you’re looking at around $8.5k option. At the top trim thats still 14% extra that is going to make some buyers hesitant, at the base model that’s 28% more expensive.

      Enough buyers will scoff at that so Kia can either ditch the idea entirely as they’ll lose money on having to pay for the initial development and never make their money back, or they find some way to repackage that cost and make it look like something that buyers are willing to deal with.

      To me the bigger issue is the cost of the service vs what you’re getting. Server time + dev team + mobile data link cannot be costing Kia more than a few million annually, mid to upper hundred K is more likely so they must not be expecting that many people to actually be paying for any of this

      • matlag@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
        7·
        11 months ago

        Assume the communication with the app it through Internet. The car must have a 4G chip (too early to see 5G in cars, I think?). So no matter what you pay, it won’t work when 4G is retired. With marketing pushing to get new standards always faster, 4G may not last another 20years.

        Anyway, bear in mind that once you subscribe, they will most likely collect detailed data about how you use the features and sell that as well…

    • devilish666@lemmy.worldOPEnglish
      97·
      11 months ago

      Finally someone who gets it
      Glad to see you here my fellow comrades
      Honestly the people who defended subscription models for something that you already paid & own are dumb (or maybe just trolling around) like people who defend adobe for subscription models

      • Saik0@lemmy.saik0.comEnglish
        23·
        11 months ago

        Honestly the people who defended subscription models for something that you already paid & own are dumb

        You don’t own the cellular towers your car needs to connect to in order to work with the app.

          • Saik0@lemmy.saik0.comEnglish
            3·
            11 months ago

            It doesn’t. The car works just fine. The features that require a cell phone are specific to operating your car while not present at your car.

          • Saik0@lemmy.saik0.comEnglish
            1·
            11 months ago

            That’s the point. It IS a subscription. The person I’m responding to believes that it shouldn’t be and that they’ve paid for it already.

  • originalucifer@moist.catsweat.com
    1803·
    11 months ago

    you should absolutely choose a vehicle without subscriptions, and make a point of stating it at time of purchase

    this is your one moment to make a difference

    • helenslunch@feddit.nlEnglish
      112·
      11 months ago

      LOL how does one go about that, exactly?

      Do you walk into the dealer and state affirmatively “I am not buying a car here because I don’t want a subscription!” and then turn around and walk out?

      Won’t matter. The company knows you don’t want this. They also know that enough other people will pay for it that it won’t matter. These subscriptions are not new. If people put their foot down and refused to pay for them they would go away, but the opposite it happening.

      Sorry.

  • criticon@lemmy.caEnglish
    1463·
    11 months ago

    And then you can’t use it when the temp is 0F because they decide to do some maintenance

    • devilish666@lemmy.worldOPEnglish
      111·
      11 months ago

      Imagine your car need an updates or you don’t paying subscription fee or but the server are offline & you’re in emergency situation, and the worst of it your car won’t start without it OMG… that’s scarred me the hell out of it

      • Thorned_Rose@kbin.social
        5·
        11 months ago

        My spouse was just telling me about someone who got stuck waiting for an hour because their car decided to unexpectedly do an update

  • Mr_Blott@lemmy.worldEnglish
    883·
    11 months ago

    The only problem with services as a subscription is THE FUCKING IDIOTS THAT PAY FOR THEM

    If nobody fell for shit like that, manufacturers would drop it like boiling diarrhea

    • cerulean_blue@lemmy.mlEnglish
      61·
      11 months ago

      This is true.

      Go and buy a car from a manufacturer who doesn’t insist on subscriptions… whilst you still can!

      • antipiratgruppen@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
        1·
        11 months ago

        Something like the XBUS seems like a good choice. They seem to focus on the important and practical stuff, and I can’t find any information about any sort of related subscription.

      • I Cast Fist@programming.devEnglish
        151·
        11 months ago

        This is where capitalism is thriving because people are dumb

        Fixed. It thrives on human stupidity and laziness

          • I Cast Fist@programming.devEnglish
            52·
            11 months ago

            It would be reasonable if what that app did was anything that actually needed internet servers to work. Why not just pair up the phone with the car, ad-hoc like you could with a PSP, or any sort of peer-to-peer between car-phone, and call it a day? Oh, right, because then you can’t create a service you can charge monthly for.

            That people are willing to pay for effectively a remote temperature control and shutdown timer, that does not need to be an internet service to work properly, can and should be dunked on.

              • locuester@lemmy.zipEnglish
                2·
                11 months ago

                It’s for office workers or inner city dwellers in cold regions. They can start their car which is in the parking garage blocks away. It makes sense and it costs money to run.

                Theres nothing wrong at all with this. At all. Image is FUD

          • youmaynotknow@lemmy.mlEnglish
            21·
            11 months ago

            Because you actually believe you didn’t already paid for about 5 years of the service when you paid for the car? Human stupidity and laziness is the accurate reason for manufacturers doing this.

  • danc4498@lemmy.worldEnglish
    701·
    11 months ago

    Worth noting that these features appear to require your car to be connected to a cellular network. This isn’t the same as BMW charging a fee for heated seats.

    They could have just put a SIM card in your car and required you to pay your cell phone provider for a connection.

  • Imgonnatrythis@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
    702·
    11 months ago

    The crazy thing is that at the price you are paying for a friggin telluride they could easily raise the price by a few hundred (ie several years worth of subscription) and it would be unlikely to shift sales by much at all but would not piss off the buyers like this. You can’t put this crap on your car loan either. I really get the sense there is a conspiracy level concerted effort to try to indoctrinate generation Z into allowing every corporation they deal with to stick an IV into their bank accounts.

    • CosmicTurtle@lemmy.worldEnglish
      521·
      11 months ago

      They intentionally didn’t roll the subscription into the sale price. That’s the goal. They want that sweet, predictable, monthly income that they sell their investors on.

      They also figured that if you’ve found your car, you’re less likely to walk away for what is essentially a fraction of the car’s price.

      I honestly hope the next car I buy has shit like this. Because boy am I going to make it my mission to jailbreak it and release my code open source.

      • Imgonnatrythis@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
        5·
        11 months ago

        If you are clever, confident, and savvy about it I think you could get your next car for free. If there was a kickstarter type project where I could pledge an amount in support of a jailbreak for a car I owned or was thinking of getting, I’d pledge a decent amount, I think a lot of people would.

        • CosmicTurtle@lemmy.worldEnglish
          16·
          11 months ago

          That’s the irony of all of this. I too would donate to a project that was actively trying to do this, even donate to their legal fund. I’d probably pay more than the subscription!

          These asshole companies just don’t realize that a determined developer and engineer will move heaven and earth to make sure that their freedoms (as in speech) aren’t restricted.

          I don’t care if it’s illegal. It’s my fucking car. Once you sell it to me, it ceases to be your property. You leave $100 bill in the glove compartment before you sell it to me? Well it’s mine now.

          You leave software on my car’s computer? Welp, it’s mine now.

      • youmaynotknow@lemmy.mlEnglish
        1·
        11 months ago

        Keep us posted on make and model. I sure as hell will try to get one myself and help you test the shit out of that jailbreak.

    • Footnote2669@lemmy.zipEnglish
      22·
      11 months ago

      10 years of this subscription is $1500. Would anyone blink if they were buying a new car for 1500 more? lol

  • corship@feddit.deEnglish
    537·
    11 months ago

    This type of subscription is actually kiiiiinda understandable because the company has to maintain servers, staff and keep the software secure because they’re handling sensitive data such as location etc.

    I also remember that BMW I think? Had a heated seat subscription and that’s really not justifiable imo

  • z00s@lemmy.worldEnglish
    40·
    11 months ago

    Simple. Buy an older car and spend the extra money maintaining it. Reducing demand is the only language consumers have that businesses understand.

    It doesn’t have to be ancient; even 5-10 year old cars don’t have this bullshit.

  • 𝓢𝓮𝓮𝓙𝓪𝔂𝓔𝓶𝓶@lemmy.procrastinati.orgEnglish
    414·
    11 months ago

    I own a Kia. I don’t enjoy the subscription anymore than the next guy but I’m calling bullshit.

    The only features behind a pay wall are the ones the app provides. The ones that require an always on internet connection and server infrastructure to maintain.

    None of the in-car features are limited. The remote start on my key fob, seat heaters, onboard nav, all work fine without a subscription.

    This isn’t like the crap bmw was pulling with the seat heaters.

  • aeronmelon@lemmy.worldEnglish
    36·
    11 months ago

    “You wouldn’t download a car.”

    I would absolutely hack the heated seats to work without my credit card.

  • adONis@lemmy.worldEnglish
    34·
    11 months ago

    or… we just need more FOSS alternatives to the car manufacturers proprietary OS.

    I already see GH issues like: “breaks stop working when going above 200mph.”

    • hex_m_hell@slrpnk.netEnglish
      82·
      11 months ago

      There’s already an open source bike. Carrying several tons of metal everywhere you go is kind of a bad idea anyway.

      • Trincapinones@lemmy.worldEnglish
        93·
        11 months ago

        What about people that don’t live in the city where public transportation between towns is trash?

        • hex_m_hell@slrpnk.netEnglish
          102·
          11 months ago

          Don’t you think it’s interesting that even though the vast majority of car trips are a single person going less than a mile, every time someone brings up bikes the rebuttal is always “what if I need to move my family of 16 and their refrigerator 800 miles in freezing rain!?”

          The US was built on rail. The infrastructure could be fixed. It’s a choice not to fix it. It would be better to put in energy to fixing this than creating an open source way to access a proprietary transit system. Infrastructure is the problem, car vendors are just exploiting it.

          Edit: correction, 52% of trips in the US in 2021 were under 3 miles and 28% are under a mile according to US DoE (https://www.energy.gov/eere/vehicles/articles/fotw-1230-march-21-2022-more-half-all-daily-trips-were-less-three-miles-2021). 2% we’re over 50 miles. Over 60% were under 5 miles, which is still pretty easy with an eBike given functional infrastructure.

          • Trincapinones@lemmy.worldEnglish
            3·
            11 months ago

            Yeah, but I’m not from the US, I’m from a small town in Europe, you can put “all that effort” in both places at the same time because they are 2 completelly different problems

            • hex_m_hell@slrpnk.netEnglish
              12·
              11 months ago

              They aren’t two completely different problems, they’re in direct opposition. Making cars more tolerable increases demand for cars. Improving mass transit and bike infrastructure decreases demand. One is sustainable, the other is not.

    • devilish666@lemmy.worldOPEnglish
      31·
      11 months ago

      I think the term you mean is old car especially from before 2018
      in the end old cars basically open source you can modified it whatever you want as long as not breaking regulations

        • Thorned_Rose@kbin.social
          2·
          11 months ago

          Nissan Leafs are plenty DIY repairable. It was part of our decision making process when considering buying an EV. There’s also electric conversions if that’s your jam.

      • psud@lemmy.worldEnglish
        3·
        11 months ago

        Some of us want all the internet connected options. And want to own their machine and have good security

        Open source car software and firmware would do that

  • bartolomeo@suppo.fiEnglish
    251·
    11 months ago

    I might be the guy that shows up at the revolution for the most trivial reason but I hate that it says $59.00 per annually like companies think they’re so smart for having business school graduates on staff charging for things only business school graduates would think to charge for but they can’t even get basic grammar right.